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Heading: 1.1.2.1.2.1.1.2RE:Manufactured Sand Presentation
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I am preparing for a presentation for the annual fall meeting of the Dallas Chapter of the American Concrete Institute. The title of the presentation will be “Manufactured Sand - The Future Fine Aggregate.?” My emphasis will be on utilizing a manufactured sand with a lower fines content (particles passing the 200 mesh) rather than the high fines content as presented by ICAR. I am looking for examples of concrete utilizing just manufactured sand and not a mix of natural sand with manufactured sand. If you know of anyone using manufactured sand to make a concrete, please let me know. As they say, a picture says a thousand words.

Any help would be appreciated.


Jay Lukkarila

ICRUSHROCK@aol.com or
ICRUSHROCK@gmail.com



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Jay Lukkarila


Jay;
I suggest you contact Tim Folks at Hawaian Cement. 808 483 3300. I know they use a lot of manufactured sand, they do blend some Maui Beach sand but perhaps not in all mixtures. Certainly they primarily use manufactured sand all their mixes.
"Doc" Watson


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Watson


Doc -

Thanks a lot. I'll give him a call next week. I'm trying to talk the ARI in sending me to Hawaii so that I can get those truly significant, everyday pictures with comments from the everyday people about concrete made everyday with manufactured sand. I did have a blast at the ICAR conference (Thanks again ARI and you're band of merry men). It was like being a kid in a candy store. Everyday there was like Christmas for me. I ran out of time to talk to everyone I wanted to and there was probably a few that wanted me to go away. Not only was there people from all over the U.S. there, I personally met and talked with people from five different countries - some as far away as Sweden and many from as close as Canada - and they all had something really interesting in their experiences and research to share that wasn't part of the structured conference.

I was surprised to see in the Aggregate's Manager's state by state summary of the USGS's findings that Hawaii actually had one sand and gravel deposit shown. I also noticed that the USGS's information is not quite accurate, as sand and gravel deposits are still shown which sell sand and gravel, but no longer mine it. There were also examples of names of quarries listed which had already changed hands twice by now. Thirdly, there were sand and gravel pits that were not shown.

It is interesting in Hawaii, that each island has a basalt that varies in characteristic's from each other. Each basalt behaves differently and each island has it's own aggregate specifications for concrete.

I recently asked one of my daughters on a proposed trip to Hawaii to go to few quarries and pick up some basalt samples and hit a few concrete projects and talk to some quality control people - she's in the pre-med program at Long Beach State and didn't sound too confident with the request.

The quest continues . . .

Jay

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Jay Lukkarila


Jay and all,

As the sand and gravel commodity specialist I might be rather upset to find that we have inaccurate data regarding aggregate mining in Hawaii. However, I'm only mildly upset because I am not surprised. At the USGS we mainly collect information one of two ways. We send surveys to all known producers in HI. If the company sends back a reply then we assume they know what they are doing and list them as a producer. If they do not reply we check the MSHA listings to determine if they operated, how they are classified (sand/gravel OR quarry), and we use the number of manhours to estimate production. We also pick up new producers from the MSHA listings. We do call producers when we are able (its impossible for us to call over 10,000 locations each year) to clarify situations. We recently spoke with Hawaiian Cement to clarify their activities but it seems we may not have done a good job. We at the USGS are happy to have feedback on our reports and data. If Jay would like to give us his critique of the 14 operations listed in the Aggreates Atlas for Hawaii we would be happy to try to get it right for the next time. Of course, the MSHA site is not always accurate and in the future our reliance on their information can get us on the wrong track again.

Anyone out there that would like to assist us in getting it right for any state or any aspect of our publications is welcome to contact us. My email is wbolen@usgs.gov

We really do try to keep it all straight but situations, definitions (is it sand and gravel or crushed stone, for instance, and limited resources often work against us.

I would also like to thank Jay for all his contributions to this forum. I have enjoyed the discussions and comments, answers and questions.
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wally bolen


Jay

We make concrete from 100% recycled aggregate by crushing waste concrete, washing it, sizing and blending it and then delivering it back to market in volumetric trucks. That's the closest we get to 'manufacturing sand'. Is this of any interest to you? We make about 60,000 m3 per year of concrete ranging from C5 to C30.

Andrew Holmes

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Andrew Holmes


Jay and All, I am from Concrete Aggregates Corp here in the Philippines, for several years now manufactured sand S1 has been used as a substitute for river sand. However because manufactured sand is coarser than river sand, it cannot be used as a substitute for all applications, in particular finishing work. To anyone interested, I will be glad to give you specifications of our products which meet strict U.S. military specs. We have supplied the U.S. base in Diego Garcia, Palau Intl Airport, Majuro Airport, all using manufactured sand.

Albert
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Alberto Villadelgado


Jay,
I was happy to see the response from CAC's, Alberto Villadelgado, of The Philippines who touched the subject "not good for all applications" and "finishing".

My experience has shown, (including Diego Garcia NAS Airfield), that 100% Mfg.Sand in paving mixes causes problems and Finishing Heartaches particularly when slipforming airport or Class A highways and meeting the new (Texas one of last)),
Rideability / Smoothness Quality Specs.

The use of 100% MS causes internal partical friction that is very hard to overcome with either ad-mixes or vibration (higher). In many cases the use of 100% MS is strickly an economic decision due the haul distance of an "oval" river sand. But the penalties for poor surface qualities, i.e. High Profilograph results, such as diamond grinding for correction and potential price reduction may far outweigh the cost of at least a 50/50 sand blend that finishes much better. The 50% river sand "Breaks" the friction factor and raises the "Finishability
Factor".
Also, forget making corrections with handtools (cutting straight edges, floats, etc.),as you go. 100% MS is almost impossible to hand finish.

100% MS is okay for formed structural works where the vibrators & forms take the finishing risk away.


You might consult with our mutual friend and Texas neighbors, Jim & Jay Shilstone about this subject.


Respectfully,
Chapin Sipherd, Retired
CMI / Terex Corp.
"Concrete Guru"
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Chapin Sipherd


Hello Chapin

I disagree with your comments that MS is is almost impossible to finish and is generally a poor performer in concrete. This maybe true for the MS that as delivered to your site. The term MS is used so loosely that it generally is all encompassing of any sand produced from crushing and screening. There are cowboys out there flogging off their crushing scalps as a MS. Quality does not even enter the equation. This approach has given MS a bad name and an image problem in many markets, especially the US.

We have consumers that use 100% manufactured sand that is used for shotcrete and they love it, it out performs the natural sand that they were using and provides them with cement and transportation savings. Mr Alan Kirby would be able to give you guidance from his experience where he has used 100% MS for concrete and shotcrete on a large civil engineering project and had no problems. There are some that are also using high amounts of minus 200# and getting a good result. The difference between what you got supplied and what our customers supply is the quality.

Metso Minerals(for whom I work) is working to improve the name of manufactured sand, many of our global markets are using increased amounts of MS in concrete. This we understand is a long long long road considering the poor MS practice that has occurred in the past. However we are hoping to achieve the unachieveable. So before making wide sweeping statements about the performance of MS, please understand the issues that surround this already sensitive of subjects.

Cheers
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Stacy Goldsworthy
 
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